Do you ever get the feeling, when you are talking to someone about Kant’s categorical imperative, that the other “person” is actually a tiny worm that you had put on a hook to go fishing? And that suddenly you realize the worm is talking back to you, but not about Kant at all; instead it is saying: “AAAAAAAHHHHHHH! This HURTS, you idiot…and you need to read some John Stuart Mill and get back to me!”
Nah, me neither. But I do sometimes get the feeling that competing intuitions are inhibiting an argument; that sometimes things just seem different to two different people, and thus it’s hard to find common ground to argue on.
This week, I feel a little like that. We’re going to continue my rebuttal of our guest atheist’s post (which, despite all I’m saying about it, I thought was excellent). Specifically, I’m going to talk about the part of Grundy’s post that dealt with miracles. And re-reading our discussion, I have to say that part of me wonders if maybe we are really just proverbial ships passing in the night; ships going to different places and never really meeting at all.
The other part of me wants to tear his post to tiny pieces. Guess which part wins?
Next week, I’ll spend some time addressing the many things in Grundy’s post that I agreed with. (And yet, dear reader, it will have the same level of sarcastic ineptitude that you have come to expect from the Apologetic Professor).
We’ll start with Grundy’s comment and proceed to my response.
Grundy: What I can’t overlook is the miracles. There’s the splitting of the Red Sea, walking on water, resurrections, talking snakes and donkeys and shrubbery, water turns to wine and sometimes blood, the divine duplication of seafood and baked goods—I seriously don’t see how anyone can believe this and not be just as credulous reading tales of Dracula and King Arthur? The rotation of the earth stops at some point so Joshua can have more daylight to kill Amorites. It just stops. I don’t want to come off as insulting, but I see this as fantasy and I have a hard time understanding how other adults do not.
Apologetic Professor: Well, let me help you understand as best I can. First of all, there is very little content in this argument. You’ve mostly asserted by fiat that miracles don’t happen. Maybe in other small and insular circles, you can simply assert that miracles don’t happen and that gets you some applause and pats on the back; just like in some of my own small insular circles, I can say I believe in the Bible and that gets me some superficial praise. But now you are entering the residence of such thinkers as St. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine and Newton and Kepler – and you’re going to need sterner stuff than that.
One of the problems with so much atheist (and Christian) argumentation is that there is no actual content to attack. You simply state you do not believe in miracles. It’s like trying to argue with someone who does not believe in England and just repeats over and over again that “England isn’t real, I haven’t seen it, and no thinking person would believe in it.”
This medicine is the most preferred drug by many people because of their numerous benefits, including getting viagra in australia easy and convenient to buy drugs online on Pharmacy Online Drug Store over the internet. However, men with heart diseases are levitra cialis viagra advised to be careful while consuming these pills for your penis. The ditched drama queen created viagra canada overnight http://ronaldgreenwaldmd.com/pdfs/colleen-gallagher-i-am-back.pdf a vitriolic video and posted it on video hosting site You Tube. viagra shops in india Those who suffer from the following should consult their doctor before taking any medication: – Kidney problems- Previous stroke- High or low blood pressure- If you are allergic to Sildenafil Citrate do not go for this medicine at all. Well, I hate to disappoint, but plenty of thinking people do believe in both England and miracles. To me, this statement from Grundy is no different than Christians who argue that the Bible is true because it says it’s true. That may end up being accurate, but it’s still very poor intellectual fare.
The primary reason I believe in miracles is the one Jesus suggested in the Bible: “Believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.” I’ve followed his advice to seek and find, and I think the evidence points in favor of the miraculous. I think I’ve seen miracles, and I think the best explanations for some historical events are miracles. Sometimes I wonder if it is only because naturalists rule out, up front, the possibility of miracles, that they deny some of the facts that might support these conclusions. Perhaps that is unfair; but, for the record, I’m not impressed by a method of discovering the truth about England that involves staying at home and denying its existence!
Now, in terms of actual argumentation, I can see two loose themes in Grundy’s statement. (1) The clearest argument stated here is that miracles don’t exist because they seem like violations of the natural order (e.g., “how can I believe the rotation of the earth would just stop?”).
That argument has the exact logical structure of saying “you should not believe in broccoli because it is a green vegetable.” I mean, the exact same structure. Of course miracles will seem…well, miraculous. Of course they will seem like violations of the natural order – because that’s the definition of a miracle. It is a violation of the natural order. So, yeah, they seem that way to me, too, and yet we are no further to actually answering the question of whether they happen. So: Next argument.
(2) Your implied inductive reasoning suggests because some stories are legends, all these stories must be legends. Fair enough – that’s certainly possible. King Arthur is an excellent example as a starting point, in part because it illustrates a common problem with this sort of argument.
Some people think Arthur was based on a real king. I get that. It may or may not be true — those people could just as easily be based on stories like the Lord of the Rings. If Tolkien had lived in ancient Egypt, we might be talking about Gandalf instead of Osiris; if he had lived in ancient England, we might be talking about Aragorn instead of Arthur. But, right of the bat, there is a problem with the inductive conclusion that “therefore, Jesus is probably a legendary figure, too.” Jesus is different historically from those legendary people by leaps and bounds — they aren’t really comparable. Arthur MAY have been based on a real king; but we don’t even know what king it was, and scholars debate that issue. Jesus wasn’t BASED on anyone; he was a real person, the thing itself. So it’s reasonable to say “the stories about Jesus may have been exaggerated or even made up after the fact” — I respect that possibility. But I’m not sure about saying “Jesus himself was actually a hero of unknown origin from a different time period that got turned into a myth.” I don’t think that’s a very historically accurate picture of the state of things.
So that’s just a start. It’s useful to establish, right up front, that some percentage of the “legends” people use in this sort of inductive argumentation (including both of the ones you use) are not really very good comparisons. Therefore, when you say “how can I believe in Jesus’ miracles but not Merlin’s magic?” my initial response is, “for one thing, Jesus was clearly a real historical figure tied to a real historical time period in a real historical place, whereas Merlin is just a shadowy legend.”
That doesn’t get us directly to miracles, of course. And I have no argument to “get” anyone to “miracles” from Go. I’ll leave the larger argument about Jesus’ resurrection aside in other and more capable hands than mine. Rather, I’ll say this: I see no reason why the natural order we see must necessarily be the only order; most people at most times – including a decent percentage of the smartest people who have ever lived – have believed in the supernatural; at least some percentage of those same people report experiencing a miracle; therefore, it seems useful to at least consider the possibility that events in my own life and others that seem odd may be explained via miracle. When I do so consider, I find that the vast majority of these events that seem “odd” are likely coincidences explained by chance or natural laws; but I still find a few that do not seem readily explained and seem clearly miraculous. Independent of that, I also find inside of me a strong hope that the supernatural exists in some way – a love of mystical things – the occasional yearning for a better place – that coincides with this belief.
Of course, Hume may be right and these things may all ultimately be explained by coincidence, chance, exaggeration, lying, and the like. I like Hume; I’m open to that; yet I’m not going to consent to it just because some folks assert by fiat that miracles don’t happen, or are uncomfortable with the idea of a talking donkey. I see no reason to assume that they can’t, and therefore I feel fine using them as a possible explanatory mechanism. When I do that, I find it highly probable that they have happened in my own life and in the lives of other people I know.
Capturing our Culture Through Movie Blurbs
I was sifting through movies on DISH today and saw one called “8 Heads in a Duffel Bag.” That sounded a little odd, so I clicked on it to read the blurb, which said something about a jet passenger accidentally taking the wrong bag at the airport – a bag that turns out to have 8 severed heads in it from a mob killing. That weird plot got me to thinking about how my friend Kevin in British Columbia said one of his favorite hobbies was reading movie blurbs, and that reminded me that I was really quite bored at the moment, and that got me to thinking that movie blurbs are kind of like mini-summaries of the state of our culture, and that reminded me that I’ve been awfully slack in posting things on this blog lately.
Using my highly integrative mind, this made me think: Voila! I can actually entertain myself, comment on our culture, and write my blog, all at the same time! All I have to do to accomplish this 3-for-1 is to sit for an hour and write down my thoughts as I read movie blurbs. So here we are! I present to you: A little experiment using movie blurbs to define our culture (and entertain myself) at your expense.
4:37 PM: I decide to start with PG-13 movies for the very altruistic reason that most of the movies I like fall into that category. So I sift through the PG-13 movie blurbs on DISH and what I find is…disheartening. Goodness, other than a movie about a jewel thief leaving a robot to his son, almost all of these movies involve revenge, killing, or evil spirits. There is even one about revenge killings by evil spirits. I kid you not. Lots of references to destruction, abduction, a vast array of nasty words ending in “uction.” And let me tell you, as the author of that last sentence, I can say with certainty that that just don’t sound right.
4:41 PM. I begin to officially fear for our culture.
4:43 PM. These blurbs have no creativity at all. I begin to think that my friend Kevin’s hobby isn’t as fun as he claimed. I also remember, coincidentally, that Kevin liked making stained glass candle-holders. Maybe he wasn’t the best barometer of fun, is all I’m saying.
4:45 PM. I’m trying to find a diamond in the rough here, and this is the most entertaining of the PG-13 lot so far:
Spoken Word: A poet falls prey to the lure of criminal life after he returns home to care for his dying father.
There’s some entertainment value in poets turning to crime…and it isn’t the usual movie trajectory for dying fathers to create a criminal life, but still…I’m reaching here. That’s really not that interesting.
4:47 PM. Something interesting just happened for the PG-13 crowd. Whew – I thought this blog post was going to be totally boring. So, see if you can fill in the missing “thing” at the end of this movie blurb:
Four teenage friends keep in touch during their summer apart by passing along a cherished…
If you said “tradition of kindness” or “letters from each other,” then you are wrong. The correct answer is: “…pair of blue jeans.” Yep, this is apparently some seriously cherished pair of blue jeans.
Now, you may be wondering about the title of this movie. So am I. The given title on Dish is “Sisterhood of the travelling p…” I mean that. It says “p…” Now I’m seriously wondering: Why can’t Dish make it so that I can see the whole title? I mean, how freakin’ hard would that be? I click on it in every possible way – no dice. I start cursing at the remote control…this also, to my surprise, does not help. What is going on? Is this an intentional effort to frustrate us? Or are they trying to turn us all into Europeans…where life has more questions than answers? Or perhaps the movie title really does have an ellipsis in it?
No – I must assume that the word is supposed to be PANTS. Culture intelligence scale: Trending downwards.
4:50 pm. I give up on PG-13 and move on to PG movies.The PG movies fare a little better. Right off the bat, we’re talking about teenage surfers riding mythical surf breaks with goofy names (Chasing Mavericks), and biology teachers doing karate to save a music program (I mean, that’s like three totally different occupations in one sentence – not bad; from Here Comes the Boom). Some nice cultural commentaries (The Wish List – “a woman lists the traits of her perfect man, then falls for a guy who meets none of the criteria”), and one use of the always-funny phrase “crotchety fellow” (Dennis the Menace). Of course, you also have the usual and boring boilerplate romance fare (“a man mistakenly e-mails the wrong woman with a message of affection” – seriously, that’s all you got to make me want to watch this movie?), an entire movie apparently about someone dreading his twin sister’s visit at Thanksgiving (Jack and Jill), and then there’s this (from Continental Divide):
A pudgy, chain-smoking Chicago columnist has a love affair with an ornithologist studying bald eagles in the Rockies.
So ok, yeah, it’s a pretty good bet that I don’t want to watch a love story about an…ornithologist.
4:54 PM. I’m noticing a disturbing trend: A lot of these PG and PG-13 movies have direct references to breaking the Ten Commandments…adultery, murder, lying, and now, in Raw Edge, we add coveting to the list:
Assorted men and an outsider covet the wife of a Oregon land baron.
Equally as disturbing is the poor grammar…“a Oregon”? I’m pretty darn sure the correct grammar here should be “a tree-hugging Oregonian.”
(I didn’t just type that, right? I mean, it just appeared in my head…right?)
American Culture: 0.
American Culture’s vague and poorly-defined opponent: 3.
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Hercules in New York: Banished Hercules catches an escaped bear, cruises Broadway and wrestles professionally.
Darby O’Gill and the Little People: An Irish caretaker lands in the underground realm of a leprechaun king and his wee bouncing subjects.
The Thirteenth Year: As a boy approaches adolescence he grows scales and fins, communicates with fish and breathes underwater.
I think each week of your life should involve mythical Greek figures cruising Broadway and catching bears for undisclosed reasons, “wee bouncing subjects,” and boys with scales and fins.
5:07 PM. I’m finally beginning to think of a point to this piece which, as I’m sure you noticed, doesn’t seem particularly relevant to anything, much less useful to an apologetics website. The point might be: I’m reminded of a quote by G. K. Chesterton that says sin, in the end, leads to sameness and dullness, while goodness leads to variety and creativity. Sin eventually turns into a pursuit of pleasure that is meaningless and looks the same regardless of category; goodness has as many varieties as there are people. Sin is black; goodness isn’t merely white – it is all the colors of the rainbow (which they tell me white is made up of; I hope that’s true, because it would make this metaphor work better).
Well, in some loose way, this has reminded me of that. The worse the rating here, on average the more the movies seemed to basically be alike – sex, murder, violence – they all sound the same. It is only when you take those out of the equation that you get things that are truly creative…truly different…truly alive.
5:17 PM. Several problems with this interpretation emerge as I continue my little experiment. First, I think I just got lucky off the bat, because I gotta admit that most of these G movies sound REALLY boring. A lot of them are like this:
Oogieloves: Balloon Adventure. The oogieloves set out the find five magical balloons that will make their good friend’s surprise birthday party extra-special.
I mean, first – and I assume I speak for all of humanity here – I don’t want my kid watching anything called the “oogieloves.” Second, if I’m on an adventure where I am set to find cool magical objects, I hope that I aim a little higher than making a friend’s birthday party just a little bit extra-special. I’d hope for something more like save the universe from evil.
5:20 PM. And sometimes, these G blurbs are documentaries about…fish. I kid you not. I mean, people really watch documentaries about fish? (And there it is, Jim…a fish…and look! I think it’s…yes, I believe it is…YES! It’s definitely swimming! I cannot believe my eyes, Jim.)
5:22 PM. And a lot of them are real movies that seem like they’d be animal documentaries, like this one:
The Black Stallion: Shipwrecked with a wild Arabian horse, a 1940s boy bonds with the animal on a tiny desert island.
Of course, many of these are fine movies, but the descriptions hardly inspire. Yes, The Black Stallion SOUNDS boring, but I’ve seen the movie and I can tell you…well, ok, actually, it is as boring as it sounds.
5:25 PM. Also, a lot of these G movies involve breaking the Ten Commandments, too. I mean, check this out, from a 1935 movie with Gene Autry:
The Sagebrush Troubador: A singing lawman and his sidekick hunt a killer and find a blonde.
I mean, really, I don’t want my daughter growing up thinking it is ok for a lawman to sing. That kind of thing just ain’t natural.
There is seriously even one G movie involving an evil spirit seeking some kind of revenge. A G movie? What are we teaching our kids these days.
5:28 PM. I weary of G movies and decide to take one small foray into the R movies. The first movie has “sexy” in it. I quit.
Culture: 0.
Vaguely-defined Cultural Opponents: 4.
5:31 PM. All in all, what have we learned from this? I would say that I have learned never to base a blog post off of a movie blurb that you didn’t write down word-for-word, because later on, when you go to write it down, you may not be able to find it. (I’m beginning to doubt whether “8 Heads in a Duffel Bag” is, in fact, a real movie.) And that’s the end of my experiment!